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Tech Tip: Question stone knot with dynamic rope

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by knotinacanyon, Nov 23, 2022.

  1. knotinacanyon

    knotinacanyon

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    hello. sent here from r/canyoneering, a beginner w 6 canyons under my belt.

    basically, are there any issues to consider when using a stone knot, smooth operator and a dynamic rope to rap about 200 feet? i was concerned w safety of a dynamic rope stretched to almost full capacity and how it may effect a stone knot and a smooth operator, could it somehow slip through for the last person? or could it cinch down and become unreleasable?

    scenario: got lost on an approach to a climb but i had my 200 ft pull cord, webbing, and smooth operator in my pack. we only had our 70 m climbing rope. i could see the trail we had to be on but we were about 200 feet up on a cliff and rather than back track i considered rapping down the cliff but didn’t know how that might work with a non static rope.

    any input is appreciated!
  2. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I would have a slight concern about the knot over-tightening if using a floppy climbing rope. Especially if wet. But only slight. At rappelling loads, the difference at the stone knot of a static rope and a climbing rope are pretty small.

    That is a definite "probably not".

    Tom
    Kuenn likes this.
  3. Kristoffer

    Kristoffer

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    I agree with Tom and with what the over on Reddit are saying. There's probably a low likelihood of over tightening the stone knot and sticking the rope, but if I had to get down and all I had was a dynamic rope I would do it.

    But in a canyoneering context you should just get a real canyon rope and not worry about it. In your specific case (where you have stated you have webbing), could you just use the webbing to put in a conventional (ie non-releasable) anchor and use the pull cord to retrieve your rap rope? Was there a specific anchor challenge that made you want to fiddlestick it?
    Kuenn, JimH and ratagonia like this.
  4. Yellow Dart

    Yellow Dart It's only hubris if I fail.

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    Agreed on getting a legit static rope.
    Can't recommend enough ropes with aramid sheaths for canyoning.

    I know I know I know they are 2-4x the cost, but, you only buy it once.

    I have a BWCE with around 75 descents on it, and we've abused the hell out of it... still perfect speed and nowhere near a coreshot; I can't say that for any other rope I've ever owned with a poly/nylon sheath.

    Used to avoid posting this recc on this forum, as Tom didn't have one on offer, and didn't feel right pointing folks elsewhere; but that is no longer the case, now that he sells the Slyther.
    Imlay Slyther 8.1 Tech Rope (canyoneeringusa.com)

    Christmas is coming up; be generous to yourself and buy aramid!
  5. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    I'll believe that when I see it. I don't have any piece of canyoneering gear that I've only bought once.
    Yellow Dart likes this.
  6. Yellow Dart

    Yellow Dart It's only hubris if I fail.

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    Body bag?
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  7. 2065toyota

    2065toyota

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    Varies drastically with the type of canyons that you are playing in
    Yellow Dart likes this.
  8. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Do your partners know you consider this part of your canyoneering gear? :)
  9. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Fair.
    Yellow Dart likes this.
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